Episode 15: How In-N-Out Should Expand to the East Coast

1:08:44 | July 1st, 2022

Episode Transcript

Garrett: Welcome to another episode of the Original Marketing Podcast, episode 15.

Brady: 15.

Garrett: inaudible.

Brady: We’re getting up there.

Garrett: So I saw a stat, Brady.

Brady: Yeah?

Garrett: It was like 90 …

Brady: How many episodes it takes to get a view?

Garrett: Yeah. It was like 90% of podcasts fail after five or six episodes, another 90% of those fail after 12. And it’s like if you make it to 21, I think it was almost 21, you’re good and you’re Joe Rogan. You’ve just got to do 21 broadcast episodes.

Brady: When I discover a podcast on YouTube, or Kill Tony, I don’t know if you know that comedy podcast?

Garrett: I was going to say it sounds like a real uplifter.

Brady: No, it’s his comedian who, he does a live podcast. So he is at a venue and he pulls from a bucket, and people sign up and they do one minute of comedy and then he just roasts them. And he gets Joe Rogan and people to join him on stage. Anyway, I discovered it episode 700 and something. It’s just that every week he’s doing it. Every Monday he’s changed venues and now it’s gaining big traction.

Garrett: So we’ve got to do 700 episodes before we get that traction?

Brady: No, I’m just saying it’s nice, it’s just all commitment, to your point.

Garrett: It’s a lot of commitment.

Brady: Yeah. Hey, we haven’t taken a week off, I don’t think.

Garrett: Never.

Brady: No.

Garrett: We’re allergic to weeks off, Brady.

Brady: No, we go on Fridays, we’ll do a Wednesday if we have to.

Garrett: We make it happen. And any updates from the weekend?

Brady: So I was in Vegas for a baby shower.

Garrett: This guy’s life, he’s always in Vegas.

Brady: I know, man.

Garrett: Or Aspen.

Brady: So that was a Friday night flight, got back last night. But it was fun. My cousin’s having a baby, so we stayed at his house and helped prep for the baby shower on Friday night when we flew in. They had probably 1, 000 balloons. We were up until almost midnight.

Garrett: No, you didn’t blow them all manually?

Brady: No, they had a pump because they were double layered. So it gets this nice matte finish. There was a black balloon inside the colored balloon, because if you didn’t have that, it would be too clear.

Garrett: Well, it would ruin the party. You couldn’t tell everyone the gender without two balloons.

Brady: Yeah, no, they already had the gender out so they were…

Garrett: Okay, good.

Brady: Yeah, yeah, it wasn’t a gender announcement. But I golfed that morning because we weren’t invited. So my cousin and I golfed.

Garrett: Oh, it was a ladies only.

Brady: But they had like 50 people there. Yeah, it was…

Garrett: What were the appetizers? Because I’m always curious about these ladies only parties, what they do at the hors d’oeuvres.

Brady: I definitely got scraps because we had dinner there after. Just that I had a ton of family in town.

Garrett: It’s like jalapeno poppers?

Brady: No.

Garrett: Okay.

Brady: I ate a lot of the cheese plate.

Garrett: Okay, a little charcuterie.

Brady: Yeah. Actually don’t know what they had for lunch. We ordered pizza that night.

Garrett: I see.

Brady: But no, they had a whole spread and…

Garrett: Mimosas.

Brady: Oh, yeah.

Garrett: I like that.

Brady: Yeah, her dad makes great old fashioneds, so I was putting those to the tests.

Garrett: So a successful trip.

Brady: Yeah, it was tons of fun. Just busy.

Garrett: Got in, got out.

Brady: Yeah, got home last night, just like, ” Okay.”

Garrett: Back.

Brady: Let’s have a micro weekend and then just go back to it.

Garrett: I love it.

Brady: It was fun, though.

Garrett: That’s awesome, man.

Brady: What’d you do?

Garrett: Friday was a golf tournament.

Brady: Oh, yeah?

Garrett: I donated.

Brady: How did you do?

Garrett: It was a scramble. I left right after.

Brady: Were you scrambling?

Garrett: I left right after we were done playing. I’d never done a scramble before.

Brady: They’re fun.

Garrett: So pressureless.

Brady: Yeah, I do it with my father- in- law for Father’s Day and I think 4th of July of every year.

Garrett: Yeah, it’s awesome. I didn’t realize, a scramble is great if you don’t take golf serious. I’m not taking golf serious right now. So just going out there, I had a couple big moments for my group and I can remember those. They needed a putt, I made that putt.

Brady: Yep.

Garrett: They needed some good drives, I had some good drives.

Brady: Yep.

Garrett: I felt like a real contributing member of the team.

Brady: Yeah, they’re tons of fun. If someone gets a good drive in the fairway and you’re up next, you can just…

Garrett: Swing for the fences.

Brady: Swing out of your shoes, and when it does slice two holes over it doesn’t matter.

Garrett: It doesn’t matter. We were playing Tijeras. I only lost two balls. I was actually playing pretty decent.

Brady: That’s actually really good for that course.

Garrett: Yeah, that course, yeah, I know. I was playing pretty decent. Saturday, kids’ day. Just wanted to do a bunch of fun stuff with the kids.

Brady: Nice.

Garrett: And then I took the lady out at night, met up with Max.

Brady: Okay, okay.

Garrett: Somehow, wasn’t planned.

Brady: Didn’t he have a birthday boat thing in Newport?

Garrett: There may or may not have been fireball shots.

Brady: Oh, my gosh.

Garrett: And I may or may not have helped him celebrate his birthday.

Brady: Nice.

Garrett: And then Sunday was Rams game with Tanner.

Brady: Very cool.

Garrett: inaudible.

Brady: Yeah, I didn’t see any fish on Instagram so I didn’t know if you didn’t go on the boat or were just unsuccessful.

Garrett: I lost an engine, Brady. I lost an engine.

Brady: That’s why you bought two.

Garrett: It needs both. I did not know that. I thought with one engine I’d be fine, though. I was going eight knots, which is about nine miles per hour, and I was an hour and 20 minutes out with both engines, I was four hours out with one. It was like 9: 30 PM, you’re just putzing home.

Brady: Were you alone?

Garrett: No, my brother was with me.

Brady: Oh, nice.

Garrett: And we had a good time, but I was very much in the middle of the ocean going eight miles per hour.

Brady: Oh, my gosh.

Garrett: It was a little stormy out there.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: I’m watching that time to destination, I can’t make the boat go faster. It was like torture for a guy like me.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: You’re just stuck going as slow as humanly possible.

Brady: Dang.

Garrett: Yeah. But it was a great weekend.

Brady: And you got back.

Garrett: Yeah, I got back, healthy.

Brady: Nice.

Garrett: Learned a lot, had a great time. And then that directive, I’m getting a little closer to the work, doing some project sign- offs, a little NSM support with the group, helping us do even better work for accounts. So a little change of pace for me.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: A little less corporate and a little bit more in the marketing, which I love.

Brady: Yeah, that’s always into the weeds.

Garrett: That’s why I started a marketing business instead of a one- on- one business. It’s way more fun doing the marketing than just one- on- ones.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: And corporate org charts.

Brady: Got to get in the mix so that we have things to talk about.

Garrett: I know, baby. So I’ve got a good one for us today for advertising jealousy that I actually really like. Do we want to start with yours, though?

Brady: Either one. Let’s get it rolling.

Garrett: Let’s do mine. Let’s do mine.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So I came across this as an Instagram ad.

Brady: Okay. Because you were talking about sunglasses?

Garrett: No, no.

Brady: I’m sure it was super sunny on the boat, you forgot your sunglasses, and you were just talking to your brother like, ” Man, I wish I had…”

Garrett: Sunglasses, sunglasses, sunglasses.

Brady: Really cool’60s style but still high end sunglasses. And then you’re on Instagram. I get it.

Garrett: That isn’t what happened.

Brady: Okay.

Garrett: I had recently bought glasses though, so I’m sure I’m in some type of audience.

Brady: Yes, yeah.

Garrett: It’s just how it always works.

Brady: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe.

Garrett: inaudible.

Brady: I had a crazy one the other weekend, but we’ll talk about that later.

Garrett: What was it? Timeout, before we get here, what was the crazy one?

Brady: So I went to my aunt and uncle’s for a pizza party and I was pouring myself some wine. And my aunt was next to me and she’s like, ” I’ve been getting into whiskey.” And we just whiskey, whiskey whiskey, talking whiskey. And then the next day my entire feed, 10 ads in a row, were whiskey. Granted, as I’m doing my research the argument is her algorithm, she’s been buying whiskey. I know she buys a lot online, so I’m sure she bought the bottle we were talking about online. And because I was in proximity with her, her ad algorithm jumps over to me because they assume…

Garrett: The IP address?

Brady: Yeah, the IP address, and we’re going to talk about whiskey because she just recently showed.

Garrett: And the wifi.

Brady: Yeah. So that’s why they’re saying it happened. But I talked about a lot of things with a lot of people.

Garrett: Scarlet, you said that you’ve been having problems too, correct? Here, Scarlet, take the mic real quick. Tell the listeners what kind of ads you’ve been getting.

Scarlet: So anything that Garrett and Brady mention on this podcast is on my work laptop and nothing in correlation with my phone.

Garrett: What about the YouTube that you run for us?

Scarlet: No, I don’t have it on my phone, and every inaudible…

Brady: That could be cross device because your phone’s on the work wifi.

Garrett: Honestly, we’re building up this, I am the only person left in this room that doesn’t believe they’re listening.

Brady: I’m just waiting for the FBI or someone to just take us away. Wasn’t there that guy who figured out how to run a car on water? No one knows where he’s at. No one knows, no. So I kind of want to end that segment.

Garrett: Oh, my gosh. You’ll never end it, you bring it up every episode, Brady.

Brady: I know, I’m never going to end it.

Garrett: I know you are. All right. So let’s break down this ad. I was on Instagram. I am a nostalgic human who feels like he should have been born in the’60s. I’ll be honest, that is true about me. And I feel like I just love the’60s. And then they gave me, this wasn’t because I love the’60s, this is just their ad theme is the’60s, and I got jealous. I’m not going to lie, they crush this ad. It has emotion, it has vibe, it has product shot, it has beautiful people, it has a whole theme. One of the best D to C ads I’ve seen recently. I’ve never heard of the brand before, mainly because I’m a peasant. I saw those glasses are like$ 500 and I was like, ” I’ll add to cart but I’m not going to buy.” You know what I mean? When you have a product that’s way too expensive, you do a little add to cart but you don’t buy.

Brady: Yeah, totally. You don’t buy them at all.

Garrett: I never would, who would buy expensive glasses?

Brady: Who would buy Oliver Peoples sunglasses? I don’t know.

Garrett: I recently bought these because they’re from a brand I like called Tens, but they were$ 65. And so I was like, ” Ooh, that’s a bit much.”

Brady: So I bought these in Japan.

Garrett: Okay.

Brady: And so I didn’t have to pay taxes on them. And it was a birthday gift and it was a honeymoon trip and I’ve worn them every day for three years straight. So my cost per day is…

Garrett: They were probably a couple hundred bucks.

Brady: … inthe cents. They were a lot of money. But I actually went to the Oliver Peoples store in early college and saw a flat lens sunglasses from Japan, and I’ve wanted them since then.

Garrett: So they inspired it.

Brady: Oh, yeah. No, these are Oliver Peoples and these ones are mainly…

Garrett: Oh, those are Oliver …

Brady: Yes, that’s why I did that whole bit.

Garrett: Oh, my goodness.

Brady: But look, they’re flat lenses so they’re not like the age of exotica.

Garrett: Let me try some of these on, let me try some of these Oliver Peoples. No free ads.

Brady: They’re called the board members or boardroom.

Garrett: Oh, these are clean. What do we think?

Brady: I love them.

Garrett: We pull them off? Let me see.

Brady: Yeah, they look great.

Garrett: Oh yeah, these are a vibe.

Brady: Yeah, they’re flat. So you can even look in the corner and you get a direct reflection.

Garrett: I didn’t know you got it like that though, bro. These are… So how much do these cost?

Brady: It’s an anniversary, birthday gift.

Garrett: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Christmas.

Brady: And the gift was, my wife allowed me to use my credit card to buy them on my birthday.

Garrett: There you go.

Brady: As a gift. I got approval to purchase them. But I love these sunglasses.

Garrett: All right, well, let’s see the brand, let’s show the ad.

Brady: Yeah, check it out.

Speaker 4: Ladies and gentlemen, the next flight to Los Angeles boards in five minutes. Please proceed to gate number three. Have a safe flight.

Garrett: Glasses so good you miss the flight for them.

Brady: Yeah, I love it. I love all the personas.

Garrett: I know.

Brady: Because I think these are called board meeting, so they’re very business professionals, their persona of the sunglass.

Garrett: Because I think the concept is, right, when you put on these glasses you become something else.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: I don’t know. They just crush it. And then what I loved is if you go to… Okay, do me a favor, Scarlet. Give me a new tab and then go to Facebook Ad Library. I thought this would be a cool way also to change the show a little bit from what we normally do. So what I did is I prepped this for us. So then go search over there for Oliver Peoples for me. Go all ads, so in ad category. Just search all ads. Yeah, we’re on…

Brady: I’m sure people don’t even know you can do this.

Garrett: Yeah, we’re on facebook. com, their ads library. Now search in Oliver Peoples for me, Scarlet. Yeah, for anybody that doesn’t know you can do this.

Brady: Yeah, and if you’re on their Facebook page it’s under transparency.

Garrett: You’re a little quick, so try that again, Scarlet, and then get rid of the space. And I don’t know if there’s an S. Oliver.

Brady: Yeah, it might just be Oliver.

Garrett: There you go. So click on that one, and now you can see all their ads. So what I thought was cool was not only the video segment which I found on their YouTube, but then all the ways they’re bringing jet set to the golden age of travel in the 1960s, and they have all of these ads, which is the ad I saw.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: This one with the girl I think with the glasses, or the dude, and they crush it. So what I liked about it was, yeah, sure you can get a guy who looks like Superman. What’s Superman’s normal name?

Brady: Gosh, I don’t know.

Garrett: Kent.

Brady: Clark Kent?

Garrett: Clark Kent.

Brady: Is that his name?

Garrett: Looks like Clark Kent, doesn’t he? But you can get a good- looking person like that, which is great, but then if you don’t tie it into a broader theme, I don’t think it creates emotion. And so I think the way they did the 1960s theme for what I believe is their fall catalog, and then did the video work to support it and executed it also while definitely selling the glasses, while also making me kind of watch a movie trailer, was really cool.

Brady: Yeah. And I’m sure the’60s are in high- end fashion as a theme right now. I just noticed even those pastel colors, that pastel nude on the cloth. I feel like I’ve seen …

Garrett: Like the Skims, like the Kim K stuff. Oh, that’s like Kim K’s brand, a lot of the influencer stuff is that nude style, that’s back in right now. It’s very popular. I don’t know, it’s awesome. I guess, yeah, bell bottom jeans came back for women. So that would be a lot of that kind of…

Brady: You have any?

Garrett: No, I don’t have any. I kind of like boot cut, every once in a while I’ll throw some boots on. But I love it. What do you think, man? Is there anything stood out to you?

Brady: I love their brand just coming into this.

Garrett: Okay. Yeah, because you already have experience, you own the cool sunglasses.

Brady: Yeah, I own it.

Garrett: That’s crazy.

Brady: To me it was risky. It was like, ” Okay, I’ve wanted these for a decade, the flat lenses.” And it was more like, ” Oh, it happens to be very expensive.” So I was sold so much on just the look and feel of the sunglasses to the point where I was like, “You know what? It’s my honeymoon. It’s my birthday.”

Garrett: Swag.

Brady: “We’re in Japan and these are made in Japan. I’ve got to get them.”

Garrett: What was the store experience when you walked in? Do you feel like the brand made you understand the price better? Do you know what I’m saying? Was there any connection to you in that purchase?

Brady: Yeah, it wasn’t at an Oliver Peoples store.

Garrett: inaudible, yeah.

Brady: It was at a skyscraper mall, and so it was a sunglass store.

Garrett: Okay. The sunglass hut.

Brady: Yeah, they definitely had higher end stuff, but they were super nice. And I actually looked at them, I tried them on and went to dinner, and then when we came back down I was thinking about it all dinner. And then my wife was like, ” Just do it.”

Garrett: Yes.

Brady: Because, tax free.

Garrett: Yeah, that’s it.

Brady: It’s time to get them.

Garrett: That’s awesome.

Brady: But no, I mean they were super nice about it. They weren’t even pushy. It’s just one of those purchases where they’re like, ” Yeah, if you’re still thinking about it, we’re open until whenever.”

Garrett: Yeah, I love that.’Cause I think there are a lot of buyers like myself, and this is what I think is so important about branding. And just not branding in the sense that redoing your brand, but brand advertising, brand marketing, doing things to create emotional connection with your followers or your audience or your customers, whoever that is. Is because I think a lot of people do what I did with these. I loved them, I found the exact pair I wanted, they were too expensive. But I put them in my cart, because when I put things in my cart I get the remarketing ads and I can see how much I actually like them. And I think a lot of people do that. Even people who aren’t in marketing and advertising will put things in their cart but not buy them right away.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: Just To see if they can get from that internal, it’s not buyer’s remorse, it’s maybe buyer apathy or buyer hesitation.

Brady: Yeah, it’s not an impulse buy.

Garrett: No, it’s not.

Brady: But I think they have the marketing to support that.

Garrett: Yeah.

Brady: If you see that video a bit more, you happen to go by the shop at South Coast and say, ” Hey, now I’m here in person. Let me see if they have this pair.”

Garrett: That would be a great ad to show me, by the way. I think at this point if you have a user, a buyer, and they’ve been on your website and maybe you have beacons so you know if they’ve been in your store or not, but you know for a fact they’ve been on your website and they’ve added something to cart.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: I think a great retargeting ad would be pushing them to a store.

Brady: Oh yeah, the next time you’re at Din Tai Fung your feed should be blowing up.

Garrett: Correct.

Brady: With Oliver Peoples.

Garrett: Yeah, that could be a geofenced, if you’re within five miles of an Oliver Peoples store and you have something in the cart, use retargeting ads to drive people to the store?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: I don’t know if they do that. But I would definitely have that as a step in my buyer strategy, my buyer journey strategy, if that makes sense.

Brady: Yeah, because that’s what got it for me, is I remember seeing them from a decade ago, just flat lenses is all I remembered. I don’t know if it was this exact pair, but that was enough to, once I was in the store and I spotted them again, and then when I tried them on is when it really was like, ” Oh, shoot.”

Garrett: Will you pull up Oliver Peoples real quick, Scarlet? I wanted to ask you a question, Brady. Do you think virtual try- on for a$500, $ 600 pair… These are not cheap glasses. So I’ll show you the ones I liked. Keep going, going. What do they call it? I took a screenshot of them just for this. Let me see. I’m going to pull it up real quick for us. I forget their name now. Gregory Peck’s Son narrow fitting. Those are up near the top, I think. I saw them. There, go down a little bit. Gregory Peck’s Son. Those ones on the left. I like those ones. Yeah, $ 486, it was a lot. So I didn’t buy them, but I liked them.

Brady: See, I’m a nose pad kind of guy.

Garrett: Yeah, I like those, yeah. Oh, they have the …

Brady: These nose pads.

Garrett: Yeah, I have those on my favorite pair, actually. I didn’t even think about that. Keep going, though. So then they go here, and I saw this and I was like, ” Kind of, but not my face.” So keep going. And then this was nice for me to know. I was like, “Oh, made in Italy, cool,” and blah blah blah. And then they had some of this, I was like, ” Okay, whatever.” Then they had this virtual try- on. So I didn’t have time to do this and I was on my computer. But once again, I don’t feel like that person has the same face as me. But they’re narrow, and I know I do well on narrow glasses, but I don’t know if I would do virtual try- on for$ 500 and be like, ” I’m sold.”

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: “‘Causethis photo of…” I don’t know. That’s a tough sell for me.

Brady: Well, I think for us we’re probably similar in that way, but I do think the majority of their buyers, they don’t even think about this purchase.

Garrett: It’s a hard one for me to swallow. I think the most expensive glasses I’ve ever bought were like$ 170.

Brady: Yeah, this is the most materialistic…

Garrett: Purchase.

Brady: …purchase I’ve had since I can’t remember.

Garrett: You don’t regret it though, right?

Brady: No, not at all. This weekend I talked to Lindsay about a backup pair, I love them so much.

Garrett: Oh, backup pair, same model, same?

Brady: I love them so much that I was like, ” What happens if they break and they stop making them?”

Garrett: You need to turn this into an ad, Oliver Peoples. You’ve got this guy over here just eating out of your hands.

Brady: I don’t think I’ll ever get to that point where I have it, but I honestly had that conversation this weekend. That’s how much I love these sunglasses.

Garrett: What a crazy timing for the podcast, for the show.

Brady: Yeah, no, when you brought them up, that’s why I joked about, ” Should I wear mine all episode?”

Garrett: Dude, I’ve been head down all day. I had not a chance to look at even my Slack. Oh, my gosh.

Brady: Yeah, it’s like the ultra boost, you know the ones that have the sock?

Garrett: Yeah.

Brady: They don’t make those any more. And I’m trying to get another pair.

Garrett: You’re on eBay and you’re like …

Brady: Yeah, on eBay and they’re like$ 300. I’m like, ” Damn it.”

Garrett: So now you realize I can’t let that happen to me again over here.

Brady: Yeah, there’s a couple things that I wish I could just have the rest of my life.

Garrett: Yeah. No, I love that. Well, yeah, so virtual try- on you think people will do?

Brady: I think so. They’re pretty good.

Garrett: Click the button, Scarlet. See how good they are. I didn’t actually click the button.

Brady: We’ve been getting some AR related prospects.

Garrett: Yeah.

Brady: So I’ve been looking into the virtual try- ons, and it’s pretty impressive how realistic they can look.

Garrett: Well, aren’t we doing stuff with the biggest people in that? Oh, Scarlet’s going to do it first. No, no, Scarlet, do it.

Brady: Whoa, whoa, whoa. You trying on the Gregorys?

Garrett: There’s no way someone would buy$ 500 glasses on that experience. I knew they would look like that. It looks like a Snapchat filter.

Brady: For me it’s…

Garrett: It’s not a bad thing, worked pretty quick. I remember I used to help a guy at PeopleSpace, remember him? What was his name?

Brady: Which one?

Garrett: He had the virtual try- on tech like nine years ago. Tall, skinny dude, flew planes.

Brady: The two engineers?

Garrett: No, no.

Brady: No.

Garrett: White dude.

Brady: Always wore the white button- up, I’m blanking on his name. Kind of a bigger guy, or no?

Garrett: No, skinny, tall.

Brady: I don’t remember.

Garrett: Oh, I forget his name. But he was a engineer, and he wrote an app that did this before it was popular.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: But that was pretty quick. So I haven’t seen the new tech, but I agree with Scarlet. I want to feel.

Brady: Oh, you’ve got to look out of them. They’re sunglasses.

Garrett: Yeah, you’ve got to see if you like what you see, right?

Brady: Yeah. And for me it’s all about, does it sit on my face?

Garrett: Correct.

Brady: Because I had a pair of Ray- Bans that didn’t have nose pads.

Garrett: Fall too much?

Brady: If I went on a hike with them and I went to tie my shoes, they’d fall off my face.

Garrett: And then you have to get them too tight so now you’re getting headaches from your head because they fall off your nose.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: Yeah, it’s a whole thing.

Brady: Yeah, I think it helps them.

Garrett: Yeah it does. It’s better than not having it.

Brady: They have stores, so they have brick and mortars in South Coast Plaza, is the only one I know of.

Garrett: Do they drive me to their store anywhere on here real quick? Let’s go look real quick if there’s a … Okay, go up.

Brady: No.

Garrett: They have try them on, but they don’t have visit us.

Brady: Like a store finder is usually…

Garrett: Yeah. See, that’s why I was so thrown off, Brady.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: That’s why I brought them up. I’d never heard of them before. I’m not really that into higher end products. I want to be, who doesn’t want to be? But I hadn’t understood it. No, that’s not it.

Brady: Site map, nice. Scarlet’s doing their SEO.

Garrett: I know. All right, well, that’s Oliver Peoples. I think they would do well… Oh, there’s a store locator.

Brady: Nice.

Garrett: If they send us more to their stores, I think you can do now on a website, you can have Google ask for location and then you could customize the experience that way.

Brady: Oh, they have one at Fashion Island.

Garrett: Yeah. So I would do that,’cause I think it’s helpful to people if you’re going to spend$ 500 on glasses to look out of them, touch them, feel them.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: See how they fit on you. But hey, that’s Oliver Peoples. Brady, who do you have for advertising jealousy?

Brady: So I went vintage today.

Garrett: Okay. You know I don’t mind that.

Brady: I know you like the vintage ads and I know you like cars, so just trying to read the room here. But I like these ads because of the simplicity, and I feel like the car industry is almost beyond this point. So this ad is from the 1930s.

Garrett: I don’t get this ad. Explain it to me.

Brady: Really? I was actually curious.

Garrett: I have no idea. No, I’m lost right now.

Brady: That’s why I like the ad. So what do you think this… Spend some time on it. What do you…

Garrett: Okay, blow it up for me, make it full screen.

Brady: That’s it.

Garrett: Okay.

Brady: 1930s. I’ll give you a hint.

Garrett: I get how the middle gets into the last because it’s so not aerodynamic it can’t hold onto it.

Brady: I’ll give you a hint. The car they’re selling is the one on the bottom.

Garrett: Correct. So it’s faster, more aerodynamic. So essentially the wind can’t hold onto you.

Brady: They’re selling just aerodynamics. This is back in the’30s where they weren’t even really thinking about that. And so they built this aerodynamic car and they’re using this wind guy to show how aerodynamics works.

Garrett: Yeah, okay, so a couple things. I like two to three. I didn’t understand one to two to three. That’s where I got lost.

Brady: So one, I think that’s just their logo.

Garrett: Okay, so my brain does go top to bottom.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So I got lost not in between two and three, but in between one and two, Brady.

Brady: Yeah. So they’re trying to sell aerodynamics in the logo visual. But then two and three is really just the kind of model T type cars that were being made, and then they came out with this car all to show aerodynamics and speed.

Garrett: What do you think about the fact that they made wind evil? So it has a serpent’s tail and it has the Satan nose. What’s your take on…

Brady: Oh yeah, look at that schnoz on that guy.

Garrett: Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I look at all these types of, they’re trying to make the wind evil. We don’t do a lot of evil now in our ads, if you think about it.

Brady: Yeah, vintage ads, it’s crazy going through vintage ads. For the most part they’re sexist.

Garrett: Makes sense.

Brady: It is wild seeing…

Garrett: Well, women didn’t vote back then. That was an entirely different culture. It was.

Brady: Yeah, it’s just crazy to go through archives of vintage ads. But yeah, I think they’re totally making it evil and saying it’s holding you back. Yeah, it’s a bad thing.

Garrett: Wind is bad.

Brady: Bad aerodynamics, you don’t go as fast. And then they’re just showing how. And I think in the’90s they did those wind tunnel commercials. I remember those where it’s a fog machine and a wind tunnel to show aerodynamics, but you don’t really see much of it. It’s now assumed, outside of MythBusters dropping the trunk on a pickup truck to see if you get better MPG.

Garrett: They did a lot of that. They did a lot, some of the logos had movement in the logos to show, I think Lexus did this, correct? I think Lexus’s logo was hand- drawn lines that showed air and aerodynamics. It was kind of like speed and agility. I think it’s interesting. So that top logo, now, this is always out of context, right? So I don’t know who Tatra is.

Brady: Yeah, I never heard of them either. And is this a newspaper ad? This was just a scanned ad.

Garrett: I do wish they had put their logo on their vehicle, because I don’t know if everyone would know which one’s the Tatra and which one’s not.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So it is hard. Maybe if I could see the front of the vehicle on the bottom a little bit. So if you made the angle a little bit more into me, if that makes sense, so it’s coming off the page, and I could see the grill.’Cause I think most people care about the frontal, if you think about the way we do car ads now, I’d argue most start with you being able to see the front grill.

Brady: Yeah. But I think back then, just from the looks of this and knowing it’s from the mid’30s.

Garrett: Yeah, early, early.

Brady: That car’s going to stand out like a Cyber Truck on the road. You know?

Garrett: Oh, yeah.

Brady: So I don’t know how much, I’d be so curious about that. Did people all know that car just by seeing it on the streets? And do you want to own the car that has these types of ads? Is this the most innovative car out there?

Garrett: I do like the drawing of the bad wind, because they created movement, I think, really well.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So if you notice, on the second image in the middle the white line on the door only makes it to in front of his fingers. See how that’s the air?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So if you go down a little bit, Scarlet, on your mouse, right there to the left. See that white line up above, actually a little bit above? That one, Yeah. See how it goes there? That’s the end of it. Now go down. Look what happens on that one. See how it goes all the way to the back?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: And then see how he’s flying with the window, they do a really good job drawing.

Brady: It’s just slipping out of his hands.

Garrett: Yeah, drawing motion. They do a really good job, because it would all be still. Was there any copy associated with the ad?

Brady: No. So the next one has copy and it’s not as old. It was interesting to see if you could grasp the concept without any words or not.

Garrett: I did get to the concept.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: I didn’t understand the one, two, three, ’cause my brain went one, two, three when it should have just gone one and two.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: And I do wish they had more of a side angle, because without color I wish I got to see the whole thing.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: It was dope.

Brady: That makes sense.

Garrett: Oh well, it’s interesting.

Brady: So this is a Triumph ad. And they do a price comparison while still, I feel like they felt like they did products so well at a low cost that they could run an ad like this. So this reminds me of pricing comparison psychology that we see even on SaaS websites within, I know there’s competitor pages, but even within your own pricing plans you stage a certain product at a certain price. And so they’re just talking about, is that euros or pounds?

Garrett: That’s pound.

Brady: Pound. So for 2, 000 sterling pounds, this is how much Ferrari you could buy. Lamborghini, Porsche, and then you can get the whole Triumph. And I’m curious how competitive that zero to 60 is. You see it on the right hand side copy, second line, 11. 3 seconds, baby.

Garrett: What year is this?

Brady: I don’t know.

Garrett: It looks like, is it’70s, 60?

Brady: I can find it, I looked for that in the copy. What year does it look? You know cars better than I do.

Garrett: I don’t know the Triumph well. I know the Porsche. I’m just trying to figure out, they had that model, I forget when they had that tail. Now, here’s my thing that is standing out to me as an advertiser. Does everyone here know that Ferraris and Lamborghinis are more than Porsches? I think most people know that.

Brady: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.

Garrett: But we didn’t make the Porsche, the size of it is what I find interesting. So notice how they have, the Lamborghini and the Porsche size of the car I feel like is the same while the Ferrari’s smaller. I think it would have made more sense if you had Ferrari at the top and you only got a little part of it.

Brady: Well, I think they’re showing, I didn’t measure it out, but they’re saying 2, 000 gets you less Ferrari but more Lamborghini, and then it looks like you get a little more Porsche, and then it gets you all of the Triumph.

Garrett: Yeah, ’cause I like to think about the conversations they must have had, because they show different parts of the car.

Brady: Yeah, I think that’s just to balance out the …

Garrett: Yeah, to balance it out, yeah. But I was curious if they would have had Ferrari up to here, Lamborghini up to here, Porsche up to here. I don’t know. It’s very good.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: That’s where my head is at and where I look at it right away, though.

Brady: Yeah, I think they’re honestly selling to a market that really shouldn’t have a sports car. They probably are a family, they probably still need to drive the kids around. They need at least one car to fit the whole family. But it’s the person’s dream to have a sports car, and I think they’re just positioning that dream to where they’d be like, ” Oh I’m not getting a Porsche. I’m not getting and Lamborghini, it’s not a Ferrari. It only costs this much.” And it has that small car, it’s a coupe, right? It looks like it could turn corners. It looks like you’d have fun going the Big Sur road in the Triumph. So I just like the style of advertisement. I think they’re selling it to someone who, without ads like this or even a car like this, they wouldn’t be driving a two- door coupe convertible.

Garrett: I like the copy at the bottom a lot.

Brady: Yeah, Now I feel like you can’t be this wordy, but whenever I look at vintage ads there’s a lot of copy. But it’s done so well.

Garrett: What did Ogilvy say? You can do copy, you just can’t do bad.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: They used to say people don’t read even back then, by the way.

Brady: Oh, I’m sure.

Garrett: No one’s been reading since, I’m sure, the first person read, everybody said nobody reads. Right?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So I don’t think that’s some new development, some new argument. ” Attention spans are decreasing.” Ah, I don’t know about that. People have been saying that from the beginning of time.

Brady: Yeah. Yeah, don’t sell the family heirlooms, don’t sell your home. You don’t have to…

Garrett: No, they don’t just call it the home, though. Look at the way they use adverbs. ” Don’t sell the stately home.”

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So to your point, this is where I was actually disagreeing with you a little bit in my head, was you said they were selling to someone who could never… I actually would argue they’re selling someone who could afford a Porsche but would only add the Porsche to cart and not actually buy it. So I think they’re selling someone who could afford Oliver Peoples glasses without making you buy Oliver Peoples glasses.

Brady: Yeah, but I think if they’re still saying family heirlooms, I guess a few special cases of wine is an interesting comparison.

Garrett: Ooh, I know. That’s what …

Brady: That’s the Ferrari buyer for sure.

Garrett: That’s what threw me off, to your comment, is that line. It wasn’t the first two’cause that didn’t get me. I was like, ” Oh, you could say that for anybody.” But dude, I know people who buy cases of special wine, and they can definitely afford a Porsche.

Brady: So do you think it’s going after the market and saying, ” You don’t need another car, just buy this toy”? Like this is a toy that’s going to fill that void in your heart that you’re shopping Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche for. But you don’t have to get a car, get this toy. It’s going to do the same thing for you. And not someone who shouldn’t be buying any of these cars and just living that dream of a coupe.

Garrett: Yeah, maybe the word’s frugal.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: Maybe they’re selling someone who has money.’Cause I would argue 2, 000 pounds back then was probably enough money that if you didn’t have money, this ad wasn’t for you. But if you did have money and you wanted a sports car and you weren’t a sworn to anyone, you could get with this or you could get with that. And I think they do a good job of that. And look at the last lines. ” And with 33 miles per gallon, you’ve got to be an oil sheik not to appreciate the Triumph.”

Brady: Yeah, I like that line.

Garrett: “So they’re a real sports car that gives you all the joy of sun, wind, and growling cylinders if you want them, and all the luxury of deep reclining seats, thick carpets, and immaculate finish if you don’t.” So they’re not saying that they are for someone who wants a Rolls Royce in a very classy car. They’re not saying there’s someone for if you want the fastest car. They’re saying you’ve got a great finish, you have some power, you’ve got an affordable price. You’ve got it all.

Brady: Yeah, they’re saying, ” We have it all.” Yeah, so maybe it is just the person who can afford it but just doesn’t think they need a sports car in their life.

Garrett: That’s my take on it. ‘Cause you and I don’t do that a lot in our positioning with our customers.

Brady: Well, yeah, this is such unique positioning. I think it was a unique car.

Garrett: Yeah, because a lot of times you either advertise to the haves or you advertise the have- nots.

Brady: They just went right in the middle, almost.

Garrett: Have- ish, the have- ish.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: This is for the have- ish. Because you still have to have 2, 000 pounds of auxiliary income.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: And enough freedom in your life.

Brady: Not sure back then what the interest rate on a car loan might be, 20%?

Garrett: At least probably, yeah, it was nasty.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: Debt’s not cheap, right? 11. 3 though, I don’t think is great.

Brady: No, but I think back then it was competitive.

Garrett: The Porsche probably did six, though, and the Lam six and seven seconds maybe, eight?

Brady: It looks pretty light.

Garrett: It is light. It looks like a Miata, doesn’t it?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: Has a bit of a Miata.

Brady: Or almost like a Shelby Cobra vibe.

Garrett: Yeah. And Triumph just does the motorcycles now. I didn’t know that they were doing cars back then.

Brady: Yeah, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen, I think I may have seen one of these ever.

Garrett: It’s English built, right? So I think Jaguar and all those came later, maybe.

Brady: Yeah. It’s the same Triumph, you think, as the motorcycle?

Garrett: Yeah, it has to be. Triumph.

Brady: Yeah, I don’t see why not.

Garrett: Yeah, in my head it has to be.

Brady: Oh yeah, it’s called …

Garrett: Because it’s English pounds.

Brady: Spitfire is the car made by Triumph.

Garrett: Made by Triumph, yeah.

Brady: Okay.

Garrett: So no, this is awesome, man, I really love this ad. Like I was saying, I do wish they standardized the unit of measurement of the cars. That’s nitpicking a little bit.

Brady: Yeah. I like the comparison. I felt like it was, from all the vintage style ads I go through I felt like for some reason it looked more modern, like something they would do today. And then just all the thought in positioning this car in a very specific way, from the copy and the visual and just that staging question at the top.

Garrett: We don’t do a lot of staging questions. I actually wrote copy for, I coached this agency’s CEO, and during the session I wrote some copy for him. And one of the things I asked was, ” When was the last time you read a case study?” And it was a staging question just like this.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: We don’t do that a lot, though, as marketers any more, is ask questions that we know our product is the answer to, that we know our positioning is the answer to.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: I don’t think we do a good enough job framing. Because this does such a good job, ” How much of a luxury sports car can you buy for around 2, 000?” Now, that’s why I wish they started all of them at the tip. So it was like the Ferrari.

Brady: You could really tell the difference.

Garrett: Yeah. Just to this far, Lamborghini went a little farther, Porsche went even further, and then at the bottom you had the whole Triumph.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: In my head I thought I could really stage it one, two, three, to, ” Oh.” But the framing of that question creates the answer in the green.

Brady: Mm- hmm. Yeah, and I think you can do questions wrong. I think people stay away from it because when they attempt it they almost assume something. So we see it in SaaS. ” Dealing with ungodly amount of contracts you need to go through every month?” And then they’re like, ” Well, what if they don’t have that as a massive pain point? Then are we ditching that segment when we could still help them?” So I think there’s questions done where it’s like you’re assuming way too much within your question.

Garrett: Yes.

Brady: You almost are, ” Oh, let’s read their mind and so let’s ask them a question about something we think they’re going through,” versus this one doesn’t really assume anything, it’s more of a statement.

Garrett: Well there’s a reason for that. Let’s unpack why that’s wrong. People ask generic questions that are universal. And if your question has no risk, it’s not a good question.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So think about it. If the question you’re asking has no risk, so think about this one. Do you wish you had more leads for your business? Everyone who cold emails me as an SDR who has some type of appointment setting service who cold emails me is like… Or they’ll ask you a question like, ” Is your business ready to handle 20 more leads a day?”

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: If you ask a question that everyone could say yes to, like, ” Do you want more money?” That’s what I mean, that’s a question without risk. To your point, people don’t want to over- assume, so they ask questions that have no risk. But I’m saying the reason this one works is how niche of a question it is. Just like the question I wrote for that guy the other day works because of how niche and specific. When was the last time you read a case study? Now you’re like, ” Ah, yeah, I probably couldn’t tell you the last time I read a case study.” And then the follow- up is, ” Are you still using case studies for your own marketing?” And you’re like, ” Oh, my gosh.”

Brady: Yeah, something’s wrong here because I just went, ” Yes, yes,” and they were conflicting answers.

Garrett: Yeah, now that to me creates the pain for where I can present his product or service as the solution. This starts with pain. ” How much of a luxury sports car can you buy for around$ 2, 000?” And you’re like, ” Well, a door handle, half a tire, and half a side window.”

Brady: Yeah. It gets you to even start thinking about buying a Ferrari, and that probably was not on that person’s agenda that day, is thinking about buying a Ferrari. And it’s not selling Ferrari, but it makes you think about it to then position the Spitfire.

Garrett: Okay, I like that. So let’s pull on that thread. Do you think this kind of ad is codependent on the purchase being impulse? You see where I’m going with this, though.

Brady: It’s tough for that to be in the car market, but I think it’s leaning more towards that than most car ads.

Garrett: Because I don’t think we think about the type of purchase that we’re selling deep enough as marketers. So my point is, do I believe people buy Triumph Spitfires out of impulse and testosterone and I’m selling them sex, to your point earlier of how they did car ads? And I’m selling aerodynamics and speed or beautiful women or whatever that thing is that they would do in a car, that frankly they still do today? And do I think I’m going to sell someone? Most people today sell you on a car by trying to put you in the car and imagining…

Brady: Yeah, and you’re drifting around a city in a Lexus.

Garrett: Well, it’s two things. It’s either the driving experience or the status of people looking at you. They do a lot of, ” Look how your neighbor,” a lot of the neighbor ads, a lot of …

Brady: Oh yeah, “That’s a Buick?” I hate those commercials, oh my God.

Garrett: But you get what I’m saying, right?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: It’s a status, right? So in most car ads today they’re using status as the driver or they’re using driving experience. In this one, which you do sometimes still see but not as much of, they’re using price. Think about it, when was the last time you really saw price advertising? Most of the cheap products they don’t advertise any more. You don’t see a ton of Camry or Corolla ads, or Civic ads.

Brady: Yeah. I haven’t been in the market for a car in a while, but they talk about monthly payments at the end of every commercial.

Garrett: They don’t talk about monthly payments at the end though, do they?

Brady: No.

Garrett: That’s my point.

Brady: No, they position the whole…

Garrett: Thing around it.

Brady: Price. I honestly think that was probably the strategy for the car, was impulse.

Garrett: Yeah. You could afford it.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: You don’t know this yet, Brady, but you could own this car right now. Do you want it? That’s to me …

Brady: I mean, 33 is pretty much what I get on my hybrid, and the same zero to 60.

Garrett: Zero to 60.

Brady: I should just get a Triumph.

Garrett: I know. Famous last words, it’s breaking down all the time. But no, I love this ad. I think those are just good questions for our audience and us to even ponder, is what kind of product or service are we selling? Do we want it to be an impulse buy? Do we want to lead with price? Are there framing questions we can ask that allow our audience to come to the conclusion that our product’s the best for them?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: Because you’re not saying, ” Buy a Triumph Spitfire.” You’re saying, ” You could get this much of a Triumph Spitfire for 2, 000.”

Brady: Mm- hmm. Yeah, I wish we could see a recording of the meetings for these groups.

Garrett: The focus groups.

Brady: Yeah, the focus groups. Because even that pricing, and I don’t know the exact year of this.

Garrett: Placement, magazines, newspapers, why, why not?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: I wish I could just unpack all of that, just be a little fly on the wall.

Brady: Yeah. Just like in today’s age where we have all of our analytics and we can draw some pretty strong conclusions of the impact on things, for them it was a lot of up- front work in planning.

Garrett: Analytics ruined everything, man. I wish people would go back to doing ads that made you feel something and talk about it and had writing. God forbid they make you read.

Brady: Yeah, I love the copy on that.

Garrett: It’s so good. Amazing work, Brady. I love it.

Brady: I didn’t make it, but thank you. Yeah, this is what I was doing last night, just made a Triumph ad.

Garrett: I love it.

Brady: It was inspiring for sure.

Garrett: So market this today, Brady, I’ve got something special for you. Do they have a song?

Brady: Do they have a song?

Garrett: Yeah, sing the song, sing the song. I haven’t heard the song.

Brady: In-n-Out.

Garrett: I don’t know how it goes, sorry.

Brady: In- n- Out. That’s what a hamburger’s all about.

Garrett: I thought that was McDonald’s.

Brady: Riley, can we get some autotune in post- production? I’m serious, if we can get that, get some rise put on the SoundCloud.

Garrett: Let’s go.

Brady: Yeah, that’s the In-n-Out song.

Garrett: Okay. So we’ve got In- n- Out today, and we’ve been elected co- presidents of the In- n- Out corporation.

Brady: Nice.

Garrett: And we’ve been tasked with one thing and one thing only, Brady. We need to bring In- n- Out to the masses.

Brady: First In- n- Out on Mars.

Garrett: East of the Mississippi.

Brady: Wow.

Garrett: We’re doing it. We’re moving east.

Brady: Starting a war.

Garrett: We have to show people what good burgers are supposed to taste like. Sorry to all my Five Guys, Whataburger, and P Terry’s folks. In- n- Out will save your life and change it. And today we’re going to talk about how we bring the West Coast superhero to the East Coast.

Brady: Okay. I think it’s going to be …

Garrett: So one of the reasons they haven’t done it-

Brady: The perception’s going to be tough.

Garrett: According to them, though, the reason they haven’t done it is, ” We’re fresh, never frozen.”

Brady: Yep.

Garrett: “And we’re incapable of identifying farmers outside of…” This is where I get a little hung up. So I don’t mean to all, I’m sorry, people have committed their whole life to this. In- n-Out has a special group of farmers that they work with. I don’t know how lax or how strict they are to be an In- n- Out partner, but they have partners I’m sure they’ve been working with for a very long time that supply all their stores fresh, never frozen beef.

Brady: Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett: And that’s the foundational…

Brady: Maybe potatoes too.

Garrett: Potato.

Brady: There’s that Five Guys thing. I know they have advertisement on their potatoes, they actually have a chalkboard that shows the farm it came from.

Garrett: I don’t know about the potatoes, but they do not freeze the potatoes, and the potatoes at In- n- Out they do straight to fries there.

Brady: Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett: Which is great. And that’s why we all love it. Great customer service, clean stores, fast drive- throughs. They are a stellar fast food franchise. But we want to bring them to the East Coast. So let’s assume we get the farmers right.

Brady: Okay.

Garrett: Let’s assume the operations of In-n- Out is functional, and that’s not what you and I are really focused on.

Brady: Okay.

Garrett: We have to turn, it’s almost cool to hate in In- n- Out if you’re not from California. There’s two camps.

Brady: Oh Yeah, I’ve seen…

Garrett: Yeah, on our Slack.

Brady: …food reviewers on YouTube go to In-n-Out, and then all the East Coasters in those comments is like, ” It’s overrated,” blah blah blah.

Garrett: It’s a divisive issue in this country.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So there’s people who love In- n- Out and hate In- n- Out. So first question I have for you, Brady, as our marketer, are we going to try to make the people who hate In-n- Out hate us less or are we going to try to get the people who love In-n- Out to love us more?

Brady: Interesting.

Garrett: You get what I’m saying?

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: On the East Coast you’ve got In- n- Out lovers.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: Who, every time they go to California, first thing they do after LAX is they arrive at the airport and they go straight to In-n-Out. We’ve got those group. We also have the other people that make a living out of just hopping on Reddit and YouTube and forums hating on In- n- Out.

Brady: Yeah. I think we can address them a little bit, but I do think there’s a large percentage that would write a comment on YouTube and then get there 10 hours early to be first in line when they open up the first one in Princeton, New Jersey.

Garrett: Okay. I had this idea that you’ll like.

Brady: Okay.

Garrett: I hope.

Brady: I’ll let you know. I’ll shoot it straight.

Garrett: Aye- aye. I want to show haters hating on In-n- Out but then secretly going. You have someone hating on In- n- Out, but then…

Brady: Yeah, I’ll put it away.

Garrett: They show them kind of escape, they’ll get away from everyone, and they put maybe a disguise on even so no one will recognize them, and they’re just in there eating every bite, licking their fingers, just best burger they’ve ever had. And then they go back the very next day to hating on In-n- Out. And the slogan’s like, ” You can’t win them all,” or something like that. I don’t know, I just had this. I think it would play, is my point.

Brady: Yeah, no, I see that on local news. I think that would be a fun route of it. And then it would be pulled off of local news and be on social media.

Garrett: It would be a social type ad, yeah, yeah.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: A little viral social ad of all the people who hate on In- n- Out. And it could start with, you know those maps they do of all the states?

Brady: Mm- hmm.

Garrett: And it can show it, we could put the top burger in all the East Coast now, and every state is In- n- Out. And this guy’s just like, ” I can’t believe this, In- n- Out’s the worst. And then it shows later that night he’s in the full obvious disguise eating In- n- Out and be like, ” This is the best burger I’ve ever had.”

Brady: Yeah, I could see a super zoomed in photo of him with a Shake Shack bag and pulling out an In- n- Out burger.

Garrett: Yes.

Brady: But it’s like a 300 times zoom video footage of it happening. That’d be pretty funny. Yeah, I think recruiting too. In terms of, how do you change the perception? I think In- n- Out has done such a good thing in terms of hiring people in high school, and then some of those people stick around and manage one and own one.

Garrett: And they pay really well, good benefits, pay well.

Brady: Yeah, good benefits, good culture. And so I feel like you could take that piece of In- n- Out and do some PR as you’re building up a staff for those stores. And then I think within those generational groups people are excited to share, ” Yeah, I’m working out the new In- n- Out.” And just from there it spreads through their peer group on liking In- n- Out because their friend got a job there and they’re doing really well.

Garrett: Ooh, I like that.

Brady: So I think you can fight the perception, the whole burger War, by owning up to and representing just other sides of the business.

Garrett: You could also do maybe generational advertising. So let’s say we knew it was a long- term play.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: We could run ads where it was kids taking their parents to In-n- Out for the first time. And so it could be showing kid with their mom driving them. Like, ” Mom, Mom, look, there’s an In- n- Out. Let’s go to In- n- Out.” She’s like, ” I don’t know, In- n- Out, I don’t know, isn’t that a California thing?” ” Come on, Mom, let’s try it once.” And then it’s like now everybody’s hooked. So I think you could almost start to show the behavior we want.’Cause I don’t know about you, when I was a kid, I would always be like, ” Mom, can we get In- n- Out?” I was always trying to get In-n-Out. That was the spot to go. I feel like you could start to show that and start to get that situational behavior of the kid being like, ” Let’s go to In-n- Out” when they drive by.

Brady: Yeah, I love those ads too.

Garrett: The plant. Yeah, we call them the plant. Just a little psychological plant.

Brady: They’re good during Christmas time for some reason.

Garrett: They do a lot of those.

Brady: That type of. Yeah, I’m trying to think. The recruiting, the generational, I think there’s an emotional ad where they could do new segments about home prices in California and the West Coast and then people leaving their hometown and moving to Midwest, maybe even East Coast because that’s just where finances are pushing them. And then In- n- Out moves with them, kind of thing.

Garrett: Everywhere you go, we have your back.

Brady: Yeah. So now they have a little piece of home on the East Coast.

Garrett: Yeah, I like that. It’s a buy to California.

Brady: Yeah. Where is In-n- Out? It’s now in Arizona, Nevada.

Garrett: There’s one in Austin.

Brady: Oh yeah, there is one in Texas.

Garrett: Yeah.

Brady: How has that been?

Garrett: It was weird.

Brady: That would be an interesting case study, because isn’t Texas where it’s like Whataburger is way…

Garrett: Yeah, there wasn’t crazy drive- through line.

Brady: Oh, interesting.

Garrett: I know.

Brady: Okay. So yeah, we really have to think about …

Garrett: It’s hard.

Brady: Because in my biased opinion it’s like, yeah, if they can make operations work once they’re out there it’s going to be bonkers.

Garrett: No it wasn’t. It wasn’t bonkers, in all transparency. Living in Austin, I could get In- n- Out when I wanted.

Brady: Utah.

Garrett: I could get it easier there than I could here. Here it’s tough. The drive- throughs are, dude, it’s hard.

Brady: Oh, yeah. It’s like, ” Do I go in or do I wait in this 50 car line?”

Garrett: I know. Do you have a formula? I don’t have a formula for being able to count the cars and knowing what the cutoff point is for the number of cars, which is slower to wait than it is to go inside. I was curious.

Brady: So I don’t get out much.

Garrett: I know that.

Brady: So I kind of like just sitting in the line.

Garrett: Yeah.

Brady: I’m listening to music. Even my drives here, I’m listening to music, driving up.

Garrett: Firing up the podcast.

Brady: First time I leave the house for the week and last time I leave the house for the week is on Monday to do the podcast.

Garrett: Oh, God.

Brady: No, seriously, I like picking up yogurt for dessert.

Garrett: Yeah, you’re a homebody but you like to do your little excursions.

Brady: Yeah. Just time in the car. So I don’t mind the long line, but every now and then if I know I’m hungry, I will.

Garrett: I didn’t know if you had a math formula, because you’re the guy, I know if you were stuck in this environment a lot, you would start to count the amount of cars and then watch the red one and then see if you got your food and look out the window.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: See if the red one did.

Brady: I’ve gone in thinking, ” This is going to be way faster,” and it was probably the same.

Garrett: Yeah, It’s tough. They always prioritize the drive-through.

Brady: They prioritize drive- through line, so I just sit in line now.

Garrett: I’ve got an ad for you.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: We would enter into the market with a bunch of ads about our secret menu.

Brady: Okay, like the animal fries?

Garrett: Yeah, because they don’t know about animal style.

Brady: Oh yeah, they kind of have to get caught up. Shoot.

Garrett: You’ve got to get caught up.

Brady: Yeah. Yeah, 70 years is what we have under our belt.

Garrett: Yeah, they don’t know there’s milk. They don’t know that there’s grilled cheese. They don’t know that there’s animal style fries. So I feel like we could run an ad, just a simple display type ad that’s like, ” Have you asked about our secret menu?” And then if you click on it it’ll take you to the secret menu. If not, it just has the In- n- Out logo and now you’re thinking about it.

Brady: I think the social content’s going to be natural, though. All the TikTokers are going to be doing comparisons. I’m a little worried about the shakes, though.

Garrett: They’re the best. You don’t think so?

Brady: I feel like it could be the Achilles’ heel.

Garrett: Whoa. Okay, but they do a traditional shake. They’re not doing a Blizzard or a McFlurry. They don’t have any Oreo. I guess that’s the big gap, they don’t have Oreo.

Brady: Yeah, I just feel like…

Garrett: Everybody else has Oreo.

Brady: I feel like the fries are going to do well at court, if you will.

Garrett: Yeah. Yeah.

Brady: I think the burger’s going to stand strong, especially at the price point.

Garrett: Protein style as well. The price point is nuts.

Brady: Yeah, it’s crazy. So that needs to be advertised. But yeah, the shake, I don’t know.

Garrett: You don’t love the shake?

Brady: I don’t like the shakes.

Garrett: Why? I mean we have some dissent in our midst, I don’t understand this.

Brady: Yeah, next time you get one, they’re pretty light, so I think their margin is too good on shakes. It’s like a very airy, the way they make it.

Garrett: That’s why I like it, though.

Brady: There’s a lot of air in it.

Garrett: Yeah. I feel healthier when I get that much.

Brady: Yeah, it doesn’t give me a stomachache. I don’t like it. No, I would go Chick- fil- A cookies and cream way before I even do a Neopolitan shake. They’re hard to eat.

Garrett: They’re different things, though. One of them is ice cream with Oreos in it and the other one’s a shake.

Brady: Aren’t they both milkshakes technically?

Garrett: I guess, but one of them, Chick- fil- a I feel like is ice cream. You could eat it with a spoon.

Brady: No, no, no, it’s different. It’s definitely a different consistency. I just don’t really…

Garrett: I do a protein style burger and then I get animal style fries to cancel myself out.

Brady: Just eat the bun.

Garrett: No, no, no, I’m trying to be health conscious. We all have our own little things. That could be a good series, though. You could show all these different people with what their different orders are. So my In- n- Out order, because everybody has their own In- n- Out order. They like everything but no onions, or they like everything but raw onions, or they like everything with grilled onions. Or they like it but no bun, but they like animal style fries. Or they don’t like the shakes but they do love the pink lemonade. We haven’t talked about the pink lemonade. Pink lemonade, that’s a California thing.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: East of the Mississippi it’s always sweet tea.

Brady: We have a good story with an employee where we went to In- n- Out and we were talking about the pink lemonade, and he thought it was strawberry lemonade for 26 years of his life.

Garrett: Doesn’t taste like strawberry, though.

Brady: Not at all.

Garrett: It’s just pink.

Brady: Yeah. So it was some education at lunch.

Garrett: I love that.

Brady: A few years ago. Anyway, that was a side note.

Garrett: Now, Brady, I think we have to seed it with the influencers. So how many influencers do you think we’d have to reach out to on TikTok to get them to start doing the comparisons? 10, 20, 5? Just a big one? Like Addison Rae does a TikTok video of In-n- Out versus Five Guys, I think we’re probably good, right?

Brady: I’d be curious how it would organically hit. I feel like In- n- Out has made a big enough brand just on the West Coast to where it’s already good content for the influencer to do. So I’d be curious how it would just naturally hit. But then…

Garrett: That style of not wanting to spend money probably fits well with In- n- Out’s marketing team. I don’t think they do a ton of marketing and advertising.

Brady: No. But then it would be like, “Okay, how far did that go? And then is there any room to control the content?”

Garrett: So I would do something too with location. To your point earlier around recruitment and their people, I would make sure we’re by a college university. Because I think the price, the health consciousness, I think the college students, I think that could work. Or an area with a lot of 30- somethings, a lot of new families.

Brady: Well, the college thing, you could actually probably look into where people come from when they attend that college.

Garrett: If they come from California, you could have a little taste of home right there, a little guaranteed sale.

Brady: Yeah. My sister went to college on the East Coast, probably the only one in rainbow sandals in the fall. Right?

Garrett: Yep.

Brady: Kind of stood out.

Garrett: That’s another one we could do. We could do rainbow sandals. That’s another great market.

Brady: That would be a good one.’Cause they don’t really…

Garrett: Coming next week.

Brady: They’re similar to In- n- Out in a sense.

Garrett: Yeah, they are. California import, export kind of thing.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: Yeah, I think all those things are great though, Brady. I just think we would need to overcome the, ” I don’t like everybody telling me how great In-n- Out is and I don’t have access to In- n- Out, so I’m just going to hate In- n- Out.” Which I think is what a lot of the East Coast has done. ” Everybody tells us how great it is, but I can’t have it so I’d rather…”

Brady: Yeah, they’re just jealous of it.

Garrett: Correct. They’re jealousy, but how do you overcome jealousy?

Brady: You open up a shop.

Garrett: Yeah, you’ve got to drive exposure, right? I think exposure is a great way to solve jealousy. A lot of times in our own lives we’ll be jealous of someone because of what we think their life is. And then we actually see behind the curtain and we’re no longer jealous. Everybody’s jealous of celebrities until they can’t go to the bathroom without 400 cameras in their face, and now they’re not jealous of celebrities. So I feel like we would have to figure out some type of campaign that showed you the truth of In- n- Out. And that’s why I like the undercover guy, I think the undercover guy can make it humorous enough that you could let your guard down. Because think about it. Someone’s been telling everyone in their circle how In- n- Out’s trash, In- n- Out’s overrated. You know these people, by the way, I’ve met these people. They have a whole persona around hating In- n- Out.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So I feel like we’d have to address that persona some way in a humorous fashion that let them take their guard down. You know?

Brady: Yeah, I think local news would be, there would be a whole local news strategy per location. I like the undercover almost controlled segment, because as much as there is the hate on the Internet, if there’s one opening up and there’s enough PR about it, people are going to go, and then you have to let the product…

Garrett: Shine. Prove it.

Brady: It’s not one of those things where if you go even though you talked crap on it online, and you like the burger for the price, you’re going to go back.

Garrett: And I think the whole family can eat for$ 20, right?

Brady: Yeah. I love it. Taco Bell’s more expensive.

Garrett: And the food, you actually feel good after eating it.

Brady: Depends what you get. I don’t get the lettuce wrap like you. I’m getting double double, animal style, add chopped chilies, which is my strategy. I think the chopped chilies …

Garrett: Whoa, tell me about the chopped chilies, break that down. I haven’t had chopped chilies there before.

Brady: Yeah, they really speed up your metabolism and so I think it’s healthier. No, they’re actually pretty spicy.

Garrett: Really?

Brady: Yeah, chopped chilies. They take their…

Garrett: Yeah, I know the yellow pepperoncinis.

Brady: Yeah, pepperoncinis. But I think they’re hotter than pepperoncinis.

Garrett: Really?

Brady: Yeah, they chop them up and put them in the burger, get a little spice going.

Garrett: That’s nice.

Brady: I probably eat way too much ketchup, though. That’s my health issue.

Garrett: But the ketchup there tastes different too. I’m convinced of that.

Brady: I use Heinz from home, but yeah, they do.

Garrett: And the Thousand Island sauce, everybody says they do the special sauce but In- n- Out’s special sauce is different.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: So I think we could just hype those features up to a certain extent. Features.

Brady: Yeah. I would like to do display ads like you’re saying, like secret menu and just going to a new market. I’m curious how they launched. They did one in Colorado Springs, I think, and there was a story about, people were waiting almost a day.

Garrett: Correct. That’s what I hear when they launch. I’m sure it was the same in Austin. But then that’s my point, I think you get that big launch like you’re saying, everybody has to go try it, but In- n- Out’s cultural for us.

Brady: Yeah.

Garrett: It’s not just a food spot, it’s our food spot.

Brady: Yeah, it’s in our DNA. There’s those moments, you land at 6: 00 PM on a Sunday and you’re in the car ride home, everyone’s already thinking In- n- Out.

Garrett: Oh.

Brady: So how do we get it to that?

Garrett: Correct, that’s my point. What if we did an ad where it was like someone… This is a burger and they had the burger like this in all the wrapping, the red wrapping and the brown paper. And they go like this and they bite it, and their eyes close and it does that little dream music and they’re like, ” A taste of California.” That person would be surfing or they’d be walking the boardwalk in Santa Monica or they’d be on a boat or they would be doing the most stereotypical California…

Brady: That could be in the relocation ad.

Garrett: Yeah, it could be. And we could just call it a bite of California or something, or a taste of California.

Brady: Mm- hmm.

Garrett: And I feel like those campaigns could work. And then from there it could eventually be like a taste of home, and you could launch with the ads as a taste of California. But maybe after a year of running that, you could slowly start to make it a taste of home. So now that same person from the first ad takes a bite, but now they’re in all the things that West Virginia does and now it’s taking them back. So it’s transcended from being a California thing to a … I think there’s some creative ways you can try to tell this story,’cause you do need to make a cultural shift for it to work.

Brady: Yeah, I like the thought of advertising, thinking of the ads that you can only do in that first couple years of making that move. You can’t run that ad once you’re there for five years.

Garrett: No, you can’t.

Brady: So I’d love that challenge even for us and the macro economy and inflation. How are we advertising in this moment?

Garrett: Wouldn’t that be so much more fun, though, if you had client partnerships where you could design a three- year strategy of how you want to change perception in a marketplace or a location or an industry?

Brady: Yeah, it’s so good, it’s so relevant that it doesn’t work two years ago and it won’t work three years from now.

Garrett: But if we could have everything be a 36- month view, or you know what I mean, a 100- month view. In 100 months how do we want an industry to feel about us, or a group of people or location? That to me creates the opportunity for more storytelling, more influence, more psychological triggers and things like that. That just gets me excited. I don’t know, it’s a very difficult task to bring In- n- Out, this cultural icon of California, to West Virginia.

Brady: Yeah, while keeping its popularity. Because is it because it’s just West Coast? Is that why we have all those lines? It would be interesting to realize any sacrifice that’s made from the West Coast revenue when it’s on the East Coast. Is it less special? I don’t think that would happen.

Garrett: I don’t think that would happen.

Brady: Just because I try to…

Garrett: It’s in our blood.

Brady: I don’t think I’m an In- n- Out guy because of all that. It’s because I like the taste and the price.

Garrett: Price. It is taste and price. I don’t think it’s because we’re Californians and so we like In-n-Out ’cause we’re from California.

Brady: Yeah, just like Costco is national. And Costco hotdogs, it’s not’cause it’s a West Coast thing. It’s like no, taste and price. I’ll go if I’m in Hawaii, I’ll go if I’m here or traveling anywhere else.

Garrett: I love it. I love it. I think we could do it. I think it’d be effective. I think In- n- Out should do it, frankly.

Brady: Yeah, I think so.

Garrett: If that is what’s next for them. But I don’t think, to both of our points, I think they do need to launch in these regions with a real marketing and advertising strategy and not just think if they build it, they will come. I don’t think Field of Dreams…

Brady: Yeah, control the perception.

Garrett: Is going to be hugely successful in West Virginia, because you’re going to get negative PR. You’re going to get the In- n- Out haters. And I think you need a way to counter them, and I think showing the Internet the In- n- Out haters being haters is the best way to launch.

Brady: Yep. I have to find that news anchor. It’s going to bug me the rest of the night. I’ll send it to production.

Garrett: Yeah, yeah, we’ve got to get it in.

Brady: I know the guy for it.

Garrett: All right. I love it. Well, that’s episode 15. Like, subscribe, comment, tell us what we should do market this next for.

Brady: Yeah, we’d love to hear some thoughts.

Garrett: Yeah, thanks for hanging out with us.

Brady: See you next week.

Garrett: Later.